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ceebeegeeSo a couple of days ago Ryan posted a link to my FB timeline, a video by a female scientist blogger who addressed the many stupid, trivial comments she gets compared to those received by her male counterparts. Ryan knows I'm a feminist, he posts/sends stuff like this to me frequently. The very first comment that shows up is from someone both Ryan and I know well, a guy we used to work with back in Virginia. Stephen used to (not sure if he still does) direct a lot of musicals in the dinner theater circuit. I have a somewhat contentious relationship with him--for one thing, he has acted very questionably toward some of his male actors (i.e., harassment) and yes, I have publicly called him out for that shit. He also loooooves to stoke the drama and be right in the middle of it--he will frequently cast himself in his own shows*, and he likes to set up little cliques within the cast with himself as the leader, and will designate someone within the cast as the outcast (and will trash that person behind their back and encourage other cast members to do so--unbelievable, really). I have this theory he was bullied in middle school and this is how he acts that out :(
But I actually have some respect for him--he *is* quite intelligent, and I've had some good conversations with him about musicals--he knows some very obscure ones (once he realized I too knew some pretty arcane shows, he started looking at me differently--we had a great talk about The Robber Bridegroom) and he knows (in theory anyway, as a director I feel he's basically a hack) what works/doesn't and why. I remember talking to him about a production of Hello, Dolly in which he and Ryan had appeared--the director of this production went a little overboard and went back to the source material, The Matchmaker, and added stuff to the libretto, trying to make it more thoughtful or something. SRH thought it was a bad idea (and indeed the show wasn't that great)--he said that HD was "a machine," you didn't need to rethink it or do anything amazing with it--the book and score were so tight, you just needed to cast it effectively, wind it up and let it go. I think this is kind of a hack mentality but it is an interesting--and thoughtful--take on why that production didn't work.
Ryan also told me this GREAT story about something he did to his roommate a few years ago. As I said SRH likes to set up little cliques within the shows he directs--he is very sensitive to being left out in any way (did I mention he's at least 20 years older than Ryan and me?). He had this roommate who was MUCH younger than SRH and...went out one night, I think, went out with his friends who were his age. I can't remember if the roommate was also in a show with SRH, but anyway...the roommate came home with his friend and when he flicked on the light in the living room, stumbled across SRH lying on the floor as though he'd had an accident, or a heart attack (he has heart problems) or something. As the roommate and the friend gasped and scrabbled for the phone to call 9-1-1, SRH jumps to his feet, wags a finger in their faces and says "NEXT time it could be for REAL!" and storms off.
I mean, is that an awesome story or what? Who DOES that?! Rarely do you get stories so perfectly illustrative of one's character!
Anyway so back to what Ryan posted, about how this woman scientist gets creeped on and nitpicked and dismissed, based almost entirely on her status as a woman. The VERY FIRST comment that appears is from SRH and he says this "I couldn't get that far...she needs to shut up."
I saw fucking red. I literally typed out and deleted like 5 comments. I had to remind myself to stay calm because I did NOT want to get into a huge back and forth comment war. But JESUS. Seriously? A post about how women are shit on and how their voices are silenced and THAT'S what you got out of it? YOU shut the fuck up, you fucking drama queen. What a completely tone-deaf, moronic, insensitive thing to say. Ugh, just WHY? I was livid.
Of course when I finally did respond (I said basically the above, plus "way to illustrate her point") HE had to respond about how ineffective her video was--that she went on too long, was too strident, too uninteresting, something like that. So I took a deep breath, told myself "just one more comment and that's it" and told him he needed to Google the term "tone argument," how it is used to derail discussions about not just women's issues but gay (and other minority--I used gay because SRH is gay) issues as well. How opponents of those concerns will attack the tone rather than the substance of what was said. "She's too strident." "They're too effeminate, they need to tone it down." "I would be an ally, but they turned me off." After I posted this I refused to look back--I knew he would respond, and he did but I wouldn't read it because I knew he would never back down. They never do. Someone does something stupid, they get called out, and they don't want to admit they were wrong so they double down. And I didn't want to spend the night steaming over this, so I just walked away.
Luckily others saw this--Rachel stepped in with her cool, measured response and shut him down, plus Ryan was like "what? I thought your [SRH's] post was a joke--yes, you did illustrate her point." Tesse said something supportive as well.
DICK.
I think ultimately he will have learned from this--as I see it most people who get called out for shit will put up a fight, but deep down they're thinking about it. Especially someone like SRH--for one thing he looooves Ryan, and he knows Ryan and I are very close. Also he has a grudging respect for me as I've said--I *think* he'll have learned better once he stops feeling defensive.
*It's not just that he casts himself--although I generally have a policy against this (because I find it too difficult to direct and act in the same show really well--just takes too much out of me), it's more how he does it. He'll have auditions for all the roles, waste everyone's time and then announce he's playing the lead role (or whatever role he wanted)--as though that role were just too, too hard to cast and he's taking one for the team. *Eyeroll* Sure, Stephen.
But I actually have some respect for him--he *is* quite intelligent, and I've had some good conversations with him about musicals--he knows some very obscure ones (once he realized I too knew some pretty arcane shows, he started looking at me differently--we had a great talk about The Robber Bridegroom) and he knows (in theory anyway, as a director I feel he's basically a hack) what works/doesn't and why. I remember talking to him about a production of Hello, Dolly in which he and Ryan had appeared--the director of this production went a little overboard and went back to the source material, The Matchmaker, and added stuff to the libretto, trying to make it more thoughtful or something. SRH thought it was a bad idea (and indeed the show wasn't that great)--he said that HD was "a machine," you didn't need to rethink it or do anything amazing with it--the book and score were so tight, you just needed to cast it effectively, wind it up and let it go. I think this is kind of a hack mentality but it is an interesting--and thoughtful--take on why that production didn't work.
Ryan also told me this GREAT story about something he did to his roommate a few years ago. As I said SRH likes to set up little cliques within the shows he directs--he is very sensitive to being left out in any way (did I mention he's at least 20 years older than Ryan and me?). He had this roommate who was MUCH younger than SRH and...went out one night, I think, went out with his friends who were his age. I can't remember if the roommate was also in a show with SRH, but anyway...the roommate came home with his friend and when he flicked on the light in the living room, stumbled across SRH lying on the floor as though he'd had an accident, or a heart attack (he has heart problems) or something. As the roommate and the friend gasped and scrabbled for the phone to call 9-1-1, SRH jumps to his feet, wags a finger in their faces and says "NEXT time it could be for REAL!" and storms off.
I mean, is that an awesome story or what? Who DOES that?! Rarely do you get stories so perfectly illustrative of one's character!
Anyway so back to what Ryan posted, about how this woman scientist gets creeped on and nitpicked and dismissed, based almost entirely on her status as a woman. The VERY FIRST comment that appears is from SRH and he says this "I couldn't get that far...she needs to shut up."
I saw fucking red. I literally typed out and deleted like 5 comments. I had to remind myself to stay calm because I did NOT want to get into a huge back and forth comment war. But JESUS. Seriously? A post about how women are shit on and how their voices are silenced and THAT'S what you got out of it? YOU shut the fuck up, you fucking drama queen. What a completely tone-deaf, moronic, insensitive thing to say. Ugh, just WHY? I was livid.
Of course when I finally did respond (I said basically the above, plus "way to illustrate her point") HE had to respond about how ineffective her video was--that she went on too long, was too strident, too uninteresting, something like that. So I took a deep breath, told myself "just one more comment and that's it" and told him he needed to Google the term "tone argument," how it is used to derail discussions about not just women's issues but gay (and other minority--I used gay because SRH is gay) issues as well. How opponents of those concerns will attack the tone rather than the substance of what was said. "She's too strident." "They're too effeminate, they need to tone it down." "I would be an ally, but they turned me off." After I posted this I refused to look back--I knew he would respond, and he did but I wouldn't read it because I knew he would never back down. They never do. Someone does something stupid, they get called out, and they don't want to admit they were wrong so they double down. And I didn't want to spend the night steaming over this, so I just walked away.
Luckily others saw this--Rachel stepped in with her cool, measured response and shut him down, plus Ryan was like "what? I thought your [SRH's] post was a joke--yes, you did illustrate her point." Tesse said something supportive as well.
DICK.
I think ultimately he will have learned from this--as I see it most people who get called out for shit will put up a fight, but deep down they're thinking about it. Especially someone like SRH--for one thing he looooves Ryan, and he knows Ryan and I are very close. Also he has a grudging respect for me as I've said--I *think* he'll have learned better once he stops feeling defensive.
*It's not just that he casts himself--although I generally have a policy against this (because I find it too difficult to direct and act in the same show really well--just takes too much out of me), it's more how he does it. He'll have auditions for all the roles, waste everyone's time and then announce he's playing the lead role (or whatever role he wanted)--as though that role were just too, too hard to cast and he's taking one for the team. *Eyeroll* Sure, Stephen.
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no subject
Date: 2013-12-06 08:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-06 11:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-07 03:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-10 05:04 pm (UTC)I doubt he even thought how obnoxious his initial comment would sound--he likely just thought he was being catty and clever.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-10 09:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-10 07:50 pm (UTC)