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ceebeegeeLast weekend was Griffin's birthday--he'd planned some kind of get together at the bar where he used to work, the invitation to which I hadn't responded but was planning to go. But I ended up playing a TON of soccer--90 minutes in the morning (and the rain) and another hour in the late afternoon. All good (and I scored 6 goals overall) but playing in the rain is murder on my horrible flat, bunioned feet. I texted him that I couldn't make it and said we'd hang out next weekend (i.e., this past WE). I have a like/hate relationships with those kids of large, casually-defined birthday hangouts anyway--I have found that *frequently* bill shenanigans occur. Last year Susan invited me and about 6-7 of her friends, none of whom I knew, to dinner at a not-cheap restraurant. I really couldn't affored to drop $60+ on dinner so I showed up for dessert. When the bill came around one of her friends looked me in the face and told me, in front of everyone, "yeah, we decided everyone's going to put in $17 extra for Susan's portion." I'm not exaggerating when I say I could feel the blood go out of my face. I was OUTRAGED. Do NOT--DO. NOT.-- *EVER* spend my money for me. The absolute, unmitigated HEIGHT of rudeness and presumptuousness. How DARE you put me on the spot like that, how DARE you assume I have that kind of extra money. I showed up for dessert only FOR A REASON. So this year when Susan invited me again, I was all "sorry, can't make it!"
So anyway Griff came over Friday night and we hung out--mostly at my apartment but I also wanted to try out a cute cocktail lounge a few blocks away which I LOVED. The owner came over and was asking me what I thought and I was showering praise on them. Great tapas and bar food, great (creative) cocktails that weren't ridiculously expensive, great atmosphere. I was worried it was going to be clubby but it wasn't at all. Griff stayed the night and we had breakfast at another local place with excellent coffee before going over to Cemtral Park to play softball. I have to say--I may have reached a certain saturation point with Griffin this weekend. I love him but he has this way--he absolutely refuses ever to admit he might be wrong, and he will hammer whatever point on which he feels defensive over and over. Where this usually comes out with him and me is gender issues. Last summer, he posted something pretty stupid, and frankly inflammatory about the whole Daniel Tosh debacle. It was sarcastic (he thought women who objected to what Tosh said were overreacting), it was dismissive and glib, it was really, really, really dumb. Just a few days after that he wanted to come to Hoboken to see the Pirates opening night and I emailed him and told him, as nicely as I could, "Anya and I are both pretty upset about what you wrote and I don't think it would be a good idea for you to come tonight." We ended up having this loooooong conversation about it that was actually quite frustrating--Griffin's fatal character trait is that he thinks his friends should know he "isn't like that." Griffin says stupid shit, espouses or enacts problematic ideas or behavior but then is stunned that his friends get mad. He thinks he's established enough of a track record as a friend that we shouldn't get mad. He kept telling me how "hurt" and "stunned" he was when I emailed him not to come and I kept turning it right around. "Well, now you know how Anya and I felt when we read your glib, sarcastic post on Facebook defending a guy who joked about gang rape in public and mocking the women who object to that comment." So then he didn't speak to me for six months. When he finally came around in February, he still went ON and ON about how hurt he was, how "I'm not that kind of guy!" and how hurt he was that he felt he was being smeared as a rape apologist and oh my Lord. You're the victim here, amirite? I let it pass--I really, really didn't feel like arguing all that AGAIN--but noted it. But I have to say, I don't even know what he learned from all that (meaning, the time we didn't speak). Guys like Grifffin cling so hard to this belief that there are two kinds of guys--rapist, asshole tools, and Good Guys. That's not how it works, kid. These beliefs operate along a spectrum, not a binary. When you let Tosh shit slide, when you don't call out your dudebro friends when they spout misogynistic jokkes or minimize rape--you're furthering those ideas. I know it's hard to rock the boat but you don't get a cookie for not actively being a dick. Racism and other isms work much the same way. I kept stressing over and over--hey, I have a lot to learn as well. Where you are with gender issues, I am to some extent with racial issues. Stop insisting you're the victim and just shut up and LISTEN.
So last weekend we had another exchange like that although this turned out slightly differently. At cocktails he'd brought up something that happened at Duncan's b-day bash at Marie's. He said to me at one point about all the "cute" girls who were there and I'd said well, don't hit on them here, a gay bar is kind of a safe place and girls don't necessarily appreciate or expect to be hit on there. Apparently this RANKLED. Two months later Griffin brings it up, I think mainly because he'd said this to other people, including Duncan, and he was worried it would get back to me :) Again, same objection--as a friend I should know him better than that, he wouldn't make them feel uncomfortable. He went on for awhile and I just let him talk and kind of tuned him out. Feel better now? The next day we're on our way to the breakfast place and he was talking about a voiceover audition he'd gone to--the holding room was also being used for a Coach runway show casting. Griffin had said he'd considered making this "self-deprecating" joke about how usually at voiceover auditions he was surrounded by a bunch of schlubby guys but today (obviously a reference to models). I was like--Griffin, that would not be a good idea. He *immediately* got defensive and started talking a LOT. I said first of all, any attractive woman *especially* one who's being sent on go-sees for runway shows, has heard it ALL before. She's heard it on the street, on the bus, on the subway, in the elevator--she's heard it, all the self-deprecating jokes, all the lame jokes, all of it. It's little more than static at this point. She probably doesn't want to hear it now, during an audition, when she's in her head, preparing for this. If she does--if she thinks you're cute or has her eye on you--the signals will be easy to read: she'll look up, she'll make eye contact, she'll smile. If no one in the room is looking up, I'd advise not making jokes and basically trying to get a reaction from them. Because I've been there before and frankly it's annoying as hell. He was talking with this long, elaborate explanation, this defense of why he *should* be allowed, why he had the *right* to do something like this, a response that basically showed how much he DIDN'T GET IT. I...well, I kind of exploded. I said "Griffin, why are you arguing with me about this? I don't get why you ask my feedback on these matters and when I tell you that's not a good idea, you never, ever accept it--you go ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON about how you should be able to hit on women anywhere. I'm the expert! I'm the one who's been in this position--I can tell you what works! Why do you always get so defensive? Why can't you just listen? Just read the signals, that's what I'm saying!" He went DEAD silent--he's used to me just letting him go on but man...I kind of blew it off and was nice to him after that and after awhile he came around. Then Saturday of course he had to follow it up with a bunch of long explanatory texts and then Sunday in person he did the same thing again. DUDE, LET IT GO. For fuck's sake. Stop talking and let it go!
So--I love him but yeah, I reached my limit for a little while.
So anyway Griff came over Friday night and we hung out--mostly at my apartment but I also wanted to try out a cute cocktail lounge a few blocks away which I LOVED. The owner came over and was asking me what I thought and I was showering praise on them. Great tapas and bar food, great (creative) cocktails that weren't ridiculously expensive, great atmosphere. I was worried it was going to be clubby but it wasn't at all. Griff stayed the night and we had breakfast at another local place with excellent coffee before going over to Cemtral Park to play softball. I have to say--I may have reached a certain saturation point with Griffin this weekend. I love him but he has this way--he absolutely refuses ever to admit he might be wrong, and he will hammer whatever point on which he feels defensive over and over. Where this usually comes out with him and me is gender issues. Last summer, he posted something pretty stupid, and frankly inflammatory about the whole Daniel Tosh debacle. It was sarcastic (he thought women who objected to what Tosh said were overreacting), it was dismissive and glib, it was really, really, really dumb. Just a few days after that he wanted to come to Hoboken to see the Pirates opening night and I emailed him and told him, as nicely as I could, "Anya and I are both pretty upset about what you wrote and I don't think it would be a good idea for you to come tonight." We ended up having this loooooong conversation about it that was actually quite frustrating--Griffin's fatal character trait is that he thinks his friends should know he "isn't like that." Griffin says stupid shit, espouses or enacts problematic ideas or behavior but then is stunned that his friends get mad. He thinks he's established enough of a track record as a friend that we shouldn't get mad. He kept telling me how "hurt" and "stunned" he was when I emailed him not to come and I kept turning it right around. "Well, now you know how Anya and I felt when we read your glib, sarcastic post on Facebook defending a guy who joked about gang rape in public and mocking the women who object to that comment." So then he didn't speak to me for six months. When he finally came around in February, he still went ON and ON about how hurt he was, how "I'm not that kind of guy!" and how hurt he was that he felt he was being smeared as a rape apologist and oh my Lord. You're the victim here, amirite? I let it pass--I really, really didn't feel like arguing all that AGAIN--but noted it. But I have to say, I don't even know what he learned from all that (meaning, the time we didn't speak). Guys like Grifffin cling so hard to this belief that there are two kinds of guys--rapist, asshole tools, and Good Guys. That's not how it works, kid. These beliefs operate along a spectrum, not a binary. When you let Tosh shit slide, when you don't call out your dudebro friends when they spout misogynistic jokkes or minimize rape--you're furthering those ideas. I know it's hard to rock the boat but you don't get a cookie for not actively being a dick. Racism and other isms work much the same way. I kept stressing over and over--hey, I have a lot to learn as well. Where you are with gender issues, I am to some extent with racial issues. Stop insisting you're the victim and just shut up and LISTEN.
So last weekend we had another exchange like that although this turned out slightly differently. At cocktails he'd brought up something that happened at Duncan's b-day bash at Marie's. He said to me at one point about all the "cute" girls who were there and I'd said well, don't hit on them here, a gay bar is kind of a safe place and girls don't necessarily appreciate or expect to be hit on there. Apparently this RANKLED. Two months later Griffin brings it up, I think mainly because he'd said this to other people, including Duncan, and he was worried it would get back to me :) Again, same objection--as a friend I should know him better than that, he wouldn't make them feel uncomfortable. He went on for awhile and I just let him talk and kind of tuned him out. Feel better now? The next day we're on our way to the breakfast place and he was talking about a voiceover audition he'd gone to--the holding room was also being used for a Coach runway show casting. Griffin had said he'd considered making this "self-deprecating" joke about how usually at voiceover auditions he was surrounded by a bunch of schlubby guys but today (obviously a reference to models). I was like--Griffin, that would not be a good idea. He *immediately* got defensive and started talking a LOT. I said first of all, any attractive woman *especially* one who's being sent on go-sees for runway shows, has heard it ALL before. She's heard it on the street, on the bus, on the subway, in the elevator--she's heard it, all the self-deprecating jokes, all the lame jokes, all of it. It's little more than static at this point. She probably doesn't want to hear it now, during an audition, when she's in her head, preparing for this. If she does--if she thinks you're cute or has her eye on you--the signals will be easy to read: she'll look up, she'll make eye contact, she'll smile. If no one in the room is looking up, I'd advise not making jokes and basically trying to get a reaction from them. Because I've been there before and frankly it's annoying as hell. He was talking with this long, elaborate explanation, this defense of why he *should* be allowed, why he had the *right* to do something like this, a response that basically showed how much he DIDN'T GET IT. I...well, I kind of exploded. I said "Griffin, why are you arguing with me about this? I don't get why you ask my feedback on these matters and when I tell you that's not a good idea, you never, ever accept it--you go ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON about how you should be able to hit on women anywhere. I'm the expert! I'm the one who's been in this position--I can tell you what works! Why do you always get so defensive? Why can't you just listen? Just read the signals, that's what I'm saying!" He went DEAD silent--he's used to me just letting him go on but man...I kind of blew it off and was nice to him after that and after awhile he came around. Then Saturday of course he had to follow it up with a bunch of long explanatory texts and then Sunday in person he did the same thing again. DUDE, LET IT GO. For fuck's sake. Stop talking and let it go!
So--I love him but yeah, I reached my limit for a little while.
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no subject
Date: 2013-08-15 02:04 am (UTC)You were very nice to Griffin. I was annoyed with him LOOOONG before you reached the point of snapping! Of course he'll be upset when they act uncomfortable or annoyed by his attentions. And it'll be their fault for not knowing how great he is!!! Women are the worst!! ANGST!
no subject
Date: 2013-08-15 09:46 pm (UTC)Re: Griffin: he has this weird, defensive resentment against guys who are more successful with women than he is. (And, I should point out, Griffin *is* successful--sort of. He's able to get dates and he definitely has sex. But he's not able to get girlfriends which is really what he wants--he wants a relationship.) Griffin sees that confident guy who's able to just make a move--go up and just start talking to her, pay her an outrageous compliment, kiss her without seeming warning*. And he thinks it's like this inalienable *right*--"if HE can do it, I should be allowed to. Otherwise it's not fair." He just doesn't get that it doesn't work that way--just because Approach A works with that guy, doesn't mean other women HAVE to allow you to approach as well. For another thing, those guys have a confidence which does kind of pave its own way--confidence smoothes a lot of those prickly edges. When a guy has a genuine smile on his face and is relaxed, it's just easier. It's uncomfortable when someone spouts one of their patented Self-Deprecating Jokes because you KNOW it's fake and he's feeling awkward. Also with confident guys, you know if you turn him down, he's not going to get weird.
Example: Tuesday night I had a late soccer game so I went over to the bar where the BF of my former roommate works--coincidentally she was there as well. We hadn't hung out in a few weeks so we sat down to talk over drinks. She knows G WELL; in fact, he introduced us. I was telling her about my annoyance with him and in the middle of our conversation, a guy comes over to us from the other side of the bar and says with this deadpan face "you know, when two women are sitting at a bar in a conversation, what they really need is a drunk guy to come over and talk to them." Well, this *was* genuinely hilarious--he immediately disarmed us. And it wasn't the material, really--it was his delivery. He wasn't *nervous,* it wasn't weird. We chatted for a few minutes and then subtly indicated we really just wanted to talk to each other and the dude got it immediately and backed off gracefully. Easy, breezy, done. I wish every strange guy who tried to chat me up were that smooth!
*I should mention he did this to ME once, the summer I first met him. He was in my show Romeo and Juliet and we'd been hanging out, going to a neighborhood bar. One night he leaned over and kissed me and no, we hadn't been flirting or close to it. I immediately froze up. The next day he emailed me about something else and I didn't reply and he texted me "did I really mess up last night?" I replied "nothing between us will ever happen. Here is why: I'm your boss [I was the producer], plus I'm playing a young male [Mercutio] who's your best friend and it's already difficult enough without messing with our dynamic on stage." I didn't add "...and I'm not attracted to you." To give him credit he jokes about it now. But dude! Read the signals!
Only semi-serious
Date: 2013-08-18 08:20 pm (UTC)I get that feeling with almost everyone. I'm sure it's some form of social disorder, but that's ok. I just vanish for a bit and call it mental health recovery. :)
This is also why I don't read comments on news stories on the internet.