Deal breakers

[ceebeegee]

Interesting article about "deal breakers."

I have a problem with the slant of this article--that women are the only gender who have deal breakers. In fact that was a running joke on Seinfeld about how inexlicably picky he and George were. And I think the concept of deal breakers is ill-defined. Any woman would be pissed at some of the behavior portrayed. Like "There's the dumb remark, as in 'I guess I should have told you I was a drug dealer.' Or: 'Do you know you have cellulite on your legs?' " I mean, duh!

But then this pissed me off, on behalf of the guys:

Who pays for a date can also be a big deal. Two generations ago, the man was expected to. A generation later, women paid their own way. Today, many young ladies silently embrace the notion that the guy should pay if he can afford it -- but guys don't seem to have caught on.

Fuck that. I cannot stand women who expect that. I saw a Today show segment about that a few years ago and my head exploded--the would-be princesses dissing any man who didn't pay. Fuck. That. Men are not banks, and women are not princesses. We are all adults. And not to mention, money comes with strings attached sometimes.

OTOH, this also pissed me off:

Chanel Hill, a GW junior, was pursued in high school by a guy whom she finally agreed to go out with once she got to college. He asked her to dinner, assuring her "You won't have to pay for a thing." They took the Metro to Union Station, dined at Johnny Rocket's, laughed over old times. Then the bill came. "It lay on the table for 10, 15, then 20 minutes," Hill recalls. "I went to the bathroom and when I came back, it was still there." Finally, the young man asked, "Chanel, what are you going to contribute?"

Dude. If you offer to pay, you should pay. A guy once asked me out, named the restaurant (and it wasn't cheap) and then asked for a contribution at the end--and I was pretty poor at the time. He did pay most of it but I thought that was very poor form. If I'd known he wanted a contribution, I would've suggested a less expensive restaurant.

But then, again OTOH, this infuriated me:

Some of her girlfriends expect to be spoiled, she says. Kalinger, though, doesn't like expensive gifts. When a boy she had been seeing for two weeks gave her a diamond heart necklace from Tiffany & Co., she cut loose. But she kept the necklace.

Sooooooooooo tacky. Unbelievably poor form. You kept a Tiffany diamond heart necklace??? And dumped the guy? I'm just shaking my head at that. I can't believe her mother let her do that.

Comments

You got a lot of hands, chica...

[mollyx.livejournal.com]

However, some of that stuff is just wrong.

And we both know guys can also have very dumb deal breakers. But that girl who broke up with the boy and took the jewelry with her. If my mother ever heard of me pulling something like that, I couldn't live to tell the tale. That's just... no home training, yo. If I ever did that, I can't even fathom it.

The last inappropriate gift I received from someone I threw away. It was a definite "moving too fast" gesture and after I found out what a pig he was, I wanted to throw it right back in his face. My friends talked me out of it. wish they hadn't.

[foulpost.livejournal.com]

-Stein recalls returning from a date in a taxi with a student from Atlanta. As they neared her dorm, she offered to pay the fare. He said, "Sure." She was offended.

"You're supposed to offer, and he's supposed to insist that he pay," she says.-

Huh? She's SUPPOSED to offer, he's SUPPOSED to insist? And is he also supposed to be a mind reader? What planet is this girl living on?

I'm not really offended by this article even though it pre-supposes that most men are just garden variety idiots who simply "don't get it", what a load of horseshit. God knows I've known enough females who were also operating on a lean mixture. Right now I'm thinking of the girl in the mens room who screamed at me to get out when I walked in a few weeks ago. Ever hear of a door lock sweetheart?

As a garden variety butt sniffing grunting primate male even I understand there are certain social conventions to which I must adhere in the dating ritual. I hold open doors, I pull out chairs, I compliment her. But a first date does NOT include dinner, for a reason. It's expensive and yes I will pay, the first time. But to get to the first time she needs to earn that, it isn't automatic. And if she offers to pay I have to say that scores big points. But usually I'll start with drinks or coffee or something simple and non-pretentious and go from there.

Here's the thing that bothers me though, why do most women assume they are they prize? I guess I'm speaking from my online dating experience here but it strikes me that the prevailing attitude is all about "you're not good enough for me." The snobbery is amazing. Does it not occur to any of them that it might, in some cases, be the other way around? For every 100 guys who lie, who beat women, who cheat on women, who are spineless losers, who truly are morons, there is a guy like me. Maybe I really don't get it.

Excuse ME...

[mollyx.livejournal.com]

But I must interject here for just a moment.
I am, by no means, speaking for every woman out there, because let's face it: I don't know every woman.
I can, however, speak on behalf of myself.

This "snobbery" as you put it, (at least for me), is a defense mechanism.

You cannot say yes to every fool that comes along. Because a good amount of the guys you will come across in your dating career are, in fact, fools. Most of the women I know have horror stories of dates that went awry. Relationships that seem to do nothing but suck the energy out of you. All kinds of things guys will do: it's a constant assault of stupidity.

There's the committment-phobics, who either sit on a fence in their relationship trying to stall until something better comes along or just go sneaking around behind their girl's back, just to see if they can get away with it. There's the guys who can't make up their mind what they want and play games with their girls. Guys who will treat their girls any damn way they please because "hey, I'm the best thing in her life."
And those are the ones without "issues."

During my singlehood, I was not being a snob, I was being selective. For many years, a woman has to endure lurid remarks, lascivious looks and even the occasional inappropriate touch. Then there are the men you actually know. From the time you are about 15 years of age on up, you recieve ridiculously polar opinions about how one should behave accepting a "compliment." Some of the things that pass for a compliment are absurd.
A guy I knew in college told his friend that I was "pretty for a Black girl." So help me God, he had no idea why I was upset when I heard.

This article seems to have a certain slant to it, focusing mainly on the economic situation involved. The girls they interviewed are young and very unaware of how very bad it can and will get. Assuming that the guy must pay for every damn thing at this stage in their lives is naive. Believing that your mere presence requires gift-giving of Tiffany proportions is, well, stupid. For every gold-digging, self-absorbed Paris Hilton wanna-be in the league of women there are about a thousand other, everyday women wanting to slap her clean out of her Manolo Blahniks for her line of thinking.

When Jason and I first started dating, I could not get used to the idea that he insisted on paying for everything. This was rare behavior in my experience and at first I wanted to know what he was expecting. I told him on more than one occasion that spending a lot of money on me was unnecessary and not the way to impress me. He didn't have to do that. I already liked him.

In my short dating career, I've had a guy attempt to cheat on me with my friends. One guy who couldn't commit to one actual date, but making out with me whenever he saw me was completely within the realm of possibility. One guy who wanted to spend forever with me, as long as our life decisions had his say so. After a while, you start to see guys like that coming a mile away. If you don't think I'm worth the work, then cut me loose and move on. If you can get past all of the other stuff, congratulations.

No one starts a new date or relationship clean. No one.

[wonderpanther.livejournal.com]

Dude. If you offer to pay, you should pay. A guy once asked me out, named the restaurant (and it wasn't cheap) and then asked for a contribution at the end--and I was pretty poor at the time. He did pay most of it but I thought that was very poor form. If I'd known he wanted a contribution, I would've suggested a less expensive restaurant.

I could not agree more. I have gone dutch and treated the guy many times. However, one V-Day, my bf at the time told me that he wanted to take me out to a really nice place, that I should pick the restaurant and "Money was no object." I offered up a few mid-priced places but he said that he wanted it to be really posh and special so I we finally agreed on a really nice place. At dinner, when the wine list came, he urged me to pick something expensive to make the night really special, so I did. At the time, I was a poor grad student and he had a decent job. I went on the date and did not bring my wallet, only my license, which was stupid but anyway, the check came and he looked at me. I said, "I didn't bring any money." He said, "You can pay me back for your half later."